Thank you for posting your continued musings and links, AgNut. The Consumer Crash of 2009 article was eye opening, even for someone like me who has known the score for a while.

I would like to learn more about garage sailing, I look forward to your post on the techniques and preparations.

__________________
"Belief is the wound that knowledge heals."
- Ursula K. LeGuin

Hi buff01, welcome aboard. This bartering and horse trading thread seems to have taken on an increasing importance as a result of the deteriorating economy. Guess I started it at about the right time. Jan 2007. No genius here; just coincidence.

In my last post I said that maybe I should write a story outlining a typical garage sailing day. Of course, they are not really typical but highly individual events; each one is a new adventure. Treasure hunting really. With bragging rights, I might add. What I mean to show is that there are rules for ‘de behavior. And dress code too.

Before we can expand our horizons, we should have already taken control of our finances. In other words, how we get in control of our current income. Because no matter how much extra money we make or save by becoming wise shoppers, we will fritter it away if there are unplugged holes in our financial bucket. It’s a whole approach to a lifestyle which remains ever vigilant to ALL possibilities. An open mind is not an empty head; flexibility and adaptability are to be as trusted mental companions.

Boy ! Sure looks like a lot of bullshit there, huh ? I don’t know; sometimes words fail me in conveying the subtleties and vital importance of this taking control of our lives. We are on the threshold of chaotic times and we better be ready. It is said that in deflationary or depression times that the winners are the ones who lose the least. Pretty much the same in hyperinflationary times with maintaining purchasing values.


Hey ! Just got a brainstorm (or maybe brain droppings as George Carlin called it) ! A hundred bagger and it won’t cost a thing !

Take a $100 bill to your bank and ask for 100 singles. Now you are prepped for when we go spinning off into hyperinflation. You have 100 the times the toilet paper or fire starter you had before. Simple ! Yes ?

But seriously folks (said with a goofy playfulness only accorded to pets and babies), we are in deep doo-doo with our money. Its losing purchasing power at an alarming rate whilst our wages are going nowhere and prices of everything (except apparently what the CPI is calculated with) is going through the roof. So what to do…what to do.

First, get mad. The kind of mad that wants revenge in a sort of maniacal frenzy. Not as extreme as a Mogambo Guru mad; don’t be foaming at the mouth while drawing up plans for a turbocharged diesel guillotine or a trebuchet with buckets of fresh steaming…. do I have to smell it out for you ?

So now you’re hot and ready to direct this anger somewhere. Can’t get mad at the politicians or bankers or even the stockbrokers; too distant and unavailable.

The best revenge is success. This can be interpreted many ways as well as acted upon in many ways. What is success anyway ? To me it is the peace of mind from knowing that I am able to financially take care of my expenses for a given period of time. Breathing space, so to speak.

Another success is to be reasonably confident I am going to be left the Hell alone. But with either inflation or deflation, the rules change. This is why I believe in this bartering and horse trading lifestyle; it works in either situation. But in order to work effectively, we must keep in context the times in which we are buying as well as the future in which we will be selling. Think of it like being in a boat with rising and falling tides. See, we float with the changes ? Most folks are like buoys with a cable and anchor at the bottom; falling tide and they “lose anchor“ and flop around. And a rising tide may just put them underwater.

By the way, I went to an auction last week and came home with a truck overloaded with goodies. I’ll write about it when time permits. I learned a lot there by watching the 35-50 attendees as well as the auctioneer’s style. Quite the whirlwind if you aren’t familiar with it.

Want to write more but gotta save something for next posts.

Best wishes,

Agnut

To know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is to have succeeded. --Ralph Waldo Emerson

Hi Agnut! I've been perusing your post now for a couple of months. I've read all your post I think.....duhhh! :-) I just wanted to stop by and say Thank You sir for your time and energy you have expended in your efforts to help others. I am truly grateful, and I've thoroughly enjoyed it all. Your threads are a great resource.

LOL, no kidding, I was disappointed to click the thread and not see an update from agnut.

__________________
Illusions occur when our brains attempt to perceive the future, and those perceptions don't match reality

Very sorry SLV>GLD.......heehee I know exactly what you mean.....I try to check this thread every day to see if he or any others have posted words of wisdom......actually anything.....I can always learn....

Hi Biggman and SLV>GLD. I’ll try to post as soon as I get some time. I have been meaning to write about an auction I recently attended. Hint : My truck was overloaded coming home.

And after that I want to write what my son and I do before and during our garage sale ventures. Sort of a guide to those who want to try out this garage sailing. So much fun I can’t understand why more aren’t out there. Not to complain; less competition and better prices. Also its easier to haggle prices when there isn’t a crowd around waiting like vultures. I’ve tried negotiating with sellers when other buyers were within earshot and some even had the nerve to try to outbid me. I’ll explain how I deal in as complete a post as possible. Probably be long winded as is my nature (doesn’t this guy ever shut up ?).

NOW do you see the necessity for a strong foundation in bartering and horse trading ?

Our economy is unraveling and our social interactions to get the things we need will be dramatically changing. There will be shortages and acquiring some items will require some savvy. This thread is a prep obtained by getting out there and kicking some financial ass ! And the beauty of it is is that a great deal of money and savings can be had while learning. I’m salivating like a Pavlov dog at the prospects, just thinking about it.

Now is a good time to be accumulating items for bartering and horse trading later. A sideline while you are looking for items to save money on, items you may need. It’s all good !

Best wishes,

Agnut

Hey Agnut,
Well I'm still silver minin. I was gonna quit when I went on vacation first of August as I had serious burnout from months of sorting 42 boxes of halves a week. I had planned to dump my hunting money into PM's and preps so as not to squander it on BS which I did for about a week after I got home. Too much fun shopping on APMEX. I thought I should get some more boxes and see ifn I could pull some more silver, bam wouldn't you know first night got 6 ozs, second night 5 ozs, within a week I had boxes to pick up every day again. I have toned down to 22 boxes a week now, not so much stress dumping now and back to having some fun at it again. I topped 1K ozs found the end of August and since them I've got 87 more. Its an up and down roller coaster but I think the economy is causing alot of people to dump alot of change.
Here's a big kudos to you. Thanks to your suggestion a year ago July, and my changing my spending habits to accomodate this lil hobby. I am doing fine even though I haven't been able to pay myself for 2 months. Things are looking up and I have work coming but I shudder to think where I would be if I had still been living paycheck to paycheck, pi$$ing away every dollar I made. Thanks again buddy, Mark

Hi ME CO, glad to hear of your success in changing your money management for the better. I bet it wasn’t painful at all but rather exciting and cathartic. They say that if you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging. But no one ever seems to say what to do in order to get out of this hole. And with bartering and horse trading, I believe that I am offering a way out.

The key to your accelerated success is realizing that your spending habits needed changing. The first act of taking up this bargain hunting lifestyle is being consciously aware in every financial decision you make. And know that after you lose your ignorance, you can’t get it back. For you ME CO, there is no turning back. You are now one of the converts to becoming “The baddest SOB on the mountain”.

ME CO, I encourage you to expand your horizons and check out estate sales, auctions garage sales, newspaper classifieds and other sources. There is money to be saved by purchases for your own use as well as money to be made by reselling items. This is an open invitation to get out there and kick some financial ass !

This bartering and horse trading thread’s purpose is two pronged. One is that without any increase in income, we can change spending habits and move our deficit toward a surplus. And the second is that by finding bargains and turning them for a profit, we can open a whole new world of opportunities that we never knew existed. Besides this, it is also tremendously profitable and fun. In your case ME CO, you greatly increased your ability to obtain more boxes of halves and therefore increased your volume of profits. Of course, you first changed spending habits in order to lay the foundation for your silver half venture.

Wow ! 1,087 ounces of silver. That’s impressive.

================================================== ===========

And now I can finally tell about the auction I attended. I found this auction in my local newspaper. The notice was about a week ahead of the auction. I took a pickup truck in case the items were heavy or bulky. I consider it important to get items in possession immediately if possible. Always remember that even if you have negotiated for an item, paid for it and even have a receipt, the seller may back out before you can return to pick up the item. It does happen occasionally and has happened to me. So be ready if possible to haul away the item when you pay for it.

This auction had an inspection of items at 9:00 A.M. and bidding beginning at 10:00 A.M. Not much time to check out all the possibilities. I had a notebook and took notes on the lots I was interested in. There was a 10% premium on top of the winning bid.

After a few minutes I sized up the whole auction and concluded that there were many possible bargains to be had. I was also sizing up the other bidders. The way they were dressed, their age, what they were attracted to, even the vehicles they arrived in. Not many professional bidders here; mostly curious locals. I watched as several items went under the gavel and observed how the auctioneer operated. Early on I could see that it was going to be hard for the auctioneer to get much money out of this group of bidders. I saw his frustration building with $1 bids and no higher. I also knew who the owner of these items was and heard of how he may react to a poor bid. Later on that.

There was a large collection of Roy Rogers cap guns and Beanie Babies. A blast from the past. The Roy Rogers collection had a couple of bidders but they wouldn’t offer much so most of it didn’t sell. Collectibles are becoming a drag on the market. Dust collectors for the most part and I see them as minor “Tulip Bulb Mania” examples. What were they thinking ?

The first item I won was a group of tire irons. One was high quality and the other two were medium quality. I got all three for $1 total ! Almost embarrassing. But if you know me, you know that I am a “total dirt bag” and have no shame. The closest I come to shame is missing a steal of a deal which I consider a crying shame. I’m like a vacuum cleaner, sucking up all the loose stuff on the landscape. My only limitations are the size of my vacuum (money to buy with) and extension cord length (I don’t like to travel far). In other words, I have a mental radius I see as my stomping grounds. A target rich environment.

About 7 power nail guns went up for sale; they were old and well worn. They went for $10 to $20 each. The last nail gun that came up was a Porter Cable model still in the case. It looked new or almost so. Perfect timing I thought, since bidders had partially exhausted and gotten what they wanted. I bid for it and won at $40. Not a bad deal; new in a store it is $200 plus tax of $16.

Next came the property itself. A double wide manufactured home on 1 ½ acres. It was appraised at $210K a year ago but didn’t even make the reserve price of $80K. No sale and I wouldn’t have wanted it even for a rental property.

Next 6 cars and trucks were bid upon. Only two bids were high enough to win. No great deals here and nothing I could see potential in.

Next I won a lot of tico galvanized couplers for beams and joists. There must have been several hundred pieces there. Included were 3 roofing hammers and some odds and ends. I paid $10.

After several more items had been auctioned off, my next lot came up. It was about 15 large boxes of various sized mostly galvanized nails. The auctioneer tried to offer a price for each box and whoever won could take as many boxes as he wanted at that price. I won high bid at $7 each and separated out 7 boxes for a total of $49. These were the most desirable boxes. The auctioneer next offered the remaining lot of 8 boxes for one price. I won that one too for a total of $10. A bit complicated to explain here but I saw that there were several boxes that would cost at least $40 each at Home Depot. And there were the rest which weren’t as valuable. I knew that I would have to bid the highest in the first auction if I was to have the most valuable boxes. I didn’t want all of the 15 boxes at $7 each. I had watched the auctioneer earlier and he had tried this method of offering individual similar items at a per item winning bid price. I figured he would repeat this on some of the lots I was interested in. That is why I waited for the rest to come up as a group. So I got 15 boxes for a total of $59. I could have paid much more had I not studied the auctioneer’s style.

I got a load of PVC pipe, a tool box full of Craftsman tools ($10), a 400 Watt Trace inverter ($10), and several other items. The auction was to have gone into the late afternoon but the bidding was so poor that the owner halted the auction halfway through. He was angry and disappointed at such sparse and low bids. I thought of getting the seller’s phone number and later contacting him but there wasn’t enough there to be worth my time. The antiques in the house never got to auction and I could have gone back later and dealt with the owner. But for some reason I felt it would be better to pass. A gut instinct. I recommend that you go against your gut instinct and see how that works out for you. A sort of test. Mine seems satisfying in that I’m not wondering and fretting later that I didn’t push further. I’m not greedy or aggressive; there are all the deals I have time for with my transmission business taking much of my time. If I didn’t have this business I would be out there beating the bushes full time. Some people make a comfortable living doing this. I have talked with several and noted that they all are laid back and easy going; a professional attitude.

No complaints; I had an overloaded truck for under $200. I could use most all of the items and would have many things for bartering and horse trading in the future. I’m starting to look like a hardware store. Remember the 500 pounds of galvanized pipe fittings I got for $50 from a few weeks ago ?

A lady outbid me on a group of 10 old fishing rods and some reels. She got them for $10 and said that she only wanted one rod and wanted to know if I wanted the others for $5. I said yes. She came back later and said that she had changed her mind and wanted to keep them. I wasn’t upset at all and said that would be fine. She appeared quite relieved and thanked me. I really didn’t care much since I already had about 20 rods and reels at home. But if it had been important to me I would have whipped out the $5 and paid her on the spot and loaded them on my truck before she could change her mind. No reason to get excited; there will always be scads of deals in the future. The key is to have a good time and not get anxious or flustered.

Never get caught up in the excitement of competitive bidding; it is a fool’s game. Know how high you will bid and live with the limitations. Better to lose a bid and have the money for the next opportunities.

Remember that once you obtain an item, you have given cash, which buys a multitude of things, for one thing that is either a bargain to you and is needed OR can be sold for a profit. See how limiting a winning bid can be ? So go slow and study before you bid. In fact, if you don’t feel confident, go to an auction for the sole purpose of watching the action. Become a student of human nature. Loads of fun and laughs in itself. I will warn you though, that if you go to an auction and do not sign up to bid, you will probably be frustrated as all getout. Why ? Because there are almost always some items that sell for dirt cheap. What I’m trying to say here is that if you aren’t familiar with auctions and you have registered to bid, at least think like a critical businessman and not like some old geezer hopped up on a load of fiat Viagra.

Note that auctions are very different than garage sales. You have to competitively bid against others which often drives up prices. I prefer garage sales and especially estate sales (drool); the deals are more like steals. I will go into depth about this as soon as time permits.

If you aren’t careful, bidding and winning auctions can be a lot like marrying in haste. Then comes repenting at leisure.

Best wishes,

Agnut

P.S. Me Co’s post is a perfect example of how a life can be turned from living from paycheck to paycheck into a life of solvency and confidence that you are better equipped to face an uncertain future. Now you all may better understand why this thread is so important.

Anyone think what the world would be like if the fiat currency were to be no longer accepted ? Sure sounds like having bartering and horse trading skills would come in handy.

The best riches are between the ears and in the heart. Good old Ben Franklin said, “Put your money into education; it’s the one thing they can’t take away from you”.

Pretty lively discussion going on over there on TOL about bartering after TSHTF.
http://www.thetreeofliberty.com/vb/s...ad.php?t=32780
A bunch of opinions on what’s going to or not going to work.

bf

Hi bottom feeder and thanks for the link. There are 18 pages posted so far and I will need time to read them all. The first page of posts was educational and intelligent.

It seems that every type of business will have its problems, some insurmountable. We all need to have a plan behind a plan behind a plan (thanks Ponce).

I’m in the auto repair business, manual transmissions specifically. I moved my business onto my acreage in the country in anticipation of this. I was paying $1,500 for rent and insurance and have cut my fixed expenses.

I have recently repaired one of my transmissions rather than fully rebuilding it and am offering it for $495. The wrecking yards charge $700 for the same model used transmission out of one of their wrecks. Theirs usually has 150K to 200K miles on it and as a result is what I call a “time bomb”. With this many miles on one of their transmissions, it won’t be long until a bearing, reverse gear or a rivet lets go. Additionally their transmissions have not been tested and Lord knows if it will even work after going through all the labor of installing it only to find out that it is worse than their old transmission. And guess what the wrecking yard will say if their transmission is a piece of junk. “Gee, sorry, here’s another transmission for you to try out”. At the buyer’s time and free labor of course. Over the decades I’ve heard all the horror stories.

In anticipation of future shortages, astronomical price rises and/or unavailability I am in the process of acquiring the necessary bare bones new parts I will need in order to continue business for the foreseeable future. It is a relatively major investment but absolutely necessary for my business’ survival.

I’m getting ready for when folks won’t be able to afford a full rebuilt and since my repaired transmissions are cheaper than their used units, business should gravitate to me. Sure, there isn’t as much net profit but I’m thinking of the future where money will be harder to get and half the net profit may well have higher purchasing power that today.

Thanks to GIM and other great websites I anticipated this a long time ago. I specialize in high miles per gallon automobiles which get from 35 to 55 MPG. I could have specialized in many types of transmissions but focused on one type which is popular and fits the parameters for the future I will need to survive in. I know I can be wrong since the world is so uncertain but this is the best I can foresee at this time.

With the breakdown of the dollar, bartering and horse trading will become a necessity. That’s why I started the thread almost two years ago. No longer is my thread a mere curiosity to be idly perused but rather a training manual for financial survival. Many of the successful people I know possess these skills and I anticipate they will do relatively well after a fiat dollar collapse.

Jim Willie has written some very hard hitting articles lately. As I understand, he feels that the reason that the dollar is high in the basket of currencies is that derivatives are having to be paid off. I think 400 billion from Lehman’s collapse is to be paid today. If so, that’s a lot of dollars to have to gather up; a lot that won’t be around. Like a teapot on the stove boiling off its water. But when the water runs out, what then ? Can you smell the meltdown ?

Gotta go; lots of reading to catch up on and work to be done.

Best wishes and JMHO,

Agnut

AGnut,
I've read this thread from the beginning, and wow, you and all the other gim members have a lot great info.
Thanks!

I am new here and I know that I should have probably introduced myself elsewhere on this forum, but........I had to respond to this quote.

You have very aptly described my Father. He is 80 years old and fighting cancer, yet he is very active and involved in making profits. His thing these days is lording over prime Iowa and Illinois farmland. His cash flow from the rent is amazing and he has virtually no overhead to speak of.

He drives a rusty old pickup and the collars on his shirts are frayed. But he has a net worth that would make most anyone jealous. I have issues with some of his beliefs and tactics, but that is not what this thread is about.

Anyway, great thread and a great site to boot.

Mike

Welcome Mike (and you too Han_solo).

You picked a great thread to start in.

__________________

Hi han solo and welcome to GIM. Thanks for the pat on the back; I need all the encouragement I can get. Not so much for ego boosting (though I make no bones about being a flattery junkie) but rather for feedback that others are thinking and changing for the better. I must add that I am gaining a lot myself.

I’m getting close to writing about garage and estate sale details. Trouble is, my business is seasonal and the months of November through January are the slowest. Therefore I need to expand marketing and time on the phone, aka running faster just to stand still. Yeah, just like Alice In Wonderland.

These uncertain times, compounded with the necessity of ongoing prep increases, with getting everything in order around the place, and friend and family associations, there is scant time left for much except staring blankly at the boob tube or the computer monitor. We all need time for unwinding from the demands of our lives.

What we take on should be accepted in a spirit of joy and adult responsibility. And I have had to learn that my expectations of others sometimes is disappointing and therefore I must deal with it in a mature manner (rather than screaming and running around like my curly hairs are on fire). This is just part of the adaptability necessary for success, especially in our current volatile world. So much is in flux that the old axiom of preservation of wealth in a financial debacle is job one.

Remember that I wrote about holding cash a while back ? Over a year ago (pats self on back)? Isn’t it more apparent today ? Well, with the many changes that have transpired since then, there are conclusions and adjustments that it may be time to examine. Where we are (imagine a hand basket) and where are we going (imagine Hell) ?

We pretty much know where we are. In a world of hurt and getting more painful by the day. I don’t have to list all the financial messes, do I ?

Where are we going ? That’s the big enchilada, isn’t it ?

Now this is just my opinion but things are bad and going to get worse. And worse for a long time. We are on the threshold of some big, big changes. What are these changes ? Here I hesitate because every time someone prognosticates that WWIII or a pandemic will consume the world, they are either totally wrong in time or intensity (or it even occurring at all).

The only “change” politicians promise may be what is left jingling in your front pocket. Let’s not kid ourselves; political promises are mere flatulence.

Just because things are going to get worse for a long time doesn’t necessarily mean that they have to become correspondingly worse for YOU ! Whatever you do from right now should be with the goal of preparing and gaining liquidity. The fly in the ointment is that the dollar is the first thing we think of and this fiat dollar is in a world of hurt. The chance of world repudiation of the dollar and bonds are hanging over our heads.

Do we stockpile dollars in anticipation of it increasing in purchasing power ? Or do we shun the dollar and invest in some other form of value ? And what could this better value be ? Would gold or silver hold or increase in value in the short term ? As in the next several months ? And even though the spot price is so low right now, gold and especially silver have a large premium attached to them. So buying silver ounces carries a $4.00 or so premium over spot price, the resell price may only be $1.00 over spot price. That’s a helluva loss to take in anticipation of the price going up in the next months. It goes without saying that the real market price is about $10.00 spot plus about $4.00 premium for a grand total of $14.00.

My overview of the situation is that silver spot price could even drop as low as around $6 but you couldn’t get any of the physical in you hot little hands. That’s an extreme but my point is that we are in a fantasy land where paper silver determines physical price while the premium spread and availability are indicating reality. Something which most of the investing public haven’t a clue. Going back to the possibility of $6 spot silver, I wonder what the premium would be at that time. Maybe $8 ? Mere speculative extrapolation ? Well, what do you think ?

With this ongoing stress in the Comex market I also wonder how long it can continue. I have read that investors are buying and not selling. The fear of losing to a dollar devaluation or even a dollar repudiation is growing and precious metals have been a traditional safe haven. We are in a process that I can only guess at the results. Holding precious metals now is only part of our preps. If we do not also hold food preps and others, we are out of balance. In fact, food prices have increased tremendously in the last year or so. Ponce says that his earlier food preps have tripled were he to have to replace them now. Wow ! That’s a 200% profit. AND you can eat it !

So what should be our focus at this particular (and peculiar) time in history? Well, it’s a realization of what our needs for survival will be in the foreseeable future. It is a proper allocation of our resources in proportion of realistic expectations. In my book, food has increased in importance through time. The tremendous price increases are one thing but there is also the specter of food availability looming over our heads (and stomachs).

For $1,000 we can buy about 2,000 cans of veggies or about 1,000 cans of tuna. Just an example so don’t get your panties in a bunch. It could be any variety of foods for a thousand bucks. But say you had $1,000 and was thinking about buying more silver. That would get you about 71 ounces of silver. And if you had no food preps and already had maybe a thousand ounces of silver, you would now have 1,071 ounces.

If instead, you did buy food you would have a ton of food preps and still have your 1,000 ounces of silver.

I know this sounds sophomoric bordering on the moronic but I have felt the need to address this issue for a long time. I’ve been reallocating my own resources for some time and the more I do it the better I feel. I haven’t yet had to sell any silver for food preps but may do so in the future. Hey ! Food price increases may exceed silver’s price rise in the near future. So I may “make more money” with food than silver. What a thought, huh ?

Bought 40 pounds of rice yesterday; two 20 pound bags for a total of $19.98. I know, I know; I already have about 700 pounds of rice. I’ve come to the realization that rice can be added to about everything edible to bulk up the quantity. Like wheat or potatoes, rice is a foundational food basic. I should add that I intend to buy many cases of Campbell’s cream of mushroom to go with the rice. It’s about 78 cents a can at Costco and about twice that at my local supermarket. Nally’s Chili is also a good rice compliment; about 89 cents a can. It has meat and beans in it so it may be a better nutritional buy than the cream of chicken.

I know this post doesn’t sound much like bartering and horse trading of the past but I feel that in view of current events, serious consideration should be taken regarding of the care and feeding of us barterers and horse traders. Can’t make deals on an empty stomach.

Gotta go. Business is slow as I expected. “Tis the season (of our folly).

Best wishes,

Agnut

P.S. Hey ! Why not wrap up preps as gifts this Christmas ? No shopping in crowded stores and no shopping for that “perfect gift”; everybody has to eat. Food with a bow on it should be a big eye opener for the sheeple and a laugh watching them open it. Yep, I’ve got sheeple in my family too.

You could call it a 2000and ate gift. See how twisted minds work ?

P.P.S. Gotta tell you this. Ponce got 12 pairs of slacks at his local thrift store for a total of $2 (not a misprint, he can cram 12 pairs of pants in a bag that they only charge $2 for). And some of these pants still have the price tags on them !. Haggar slacks and others that cost about $40 each. Well, he was trying on a pair the other day and felt something in a front pocket. He pulled out two twenty dollar bills !

We laughed about this as he asked me how much of a bagger it was. I told him it was an “infinite bagger”. Paying $2 to get 12 pairs of slacks AND $40 cash is off the charts in my book.

Ya gotta be in it to win it.

ahahahahaaa........Ponce is the king of Luckatonia......a small kingdom in the Pacific Northwest where all the women are beautiful, and the children are respectful and quiet.

__________________
Yep....it's true.... most folks are dumber than coal buckets.

Hi Dawg and welcome to GIM. A few years ago I lived in a small country town and most of the local wealthy were like the rest of us. Old school. However, somewhere in the past many of the successful lost their way and began to show off their wealth and separated themselves from the rabble (us). Something gained but also something lost.

An interesting article here :

Deflationary Hoax by Puru Saxena

http://www.financialsense.com/editor...2008/1114.html


I hard copied this article and have shared it with friends. This deflation/inflation discussion has been going on for a long time. Right now dollars are in high demand and therefore physical things are being sold at distress prices. Garage sales and estate sales are very slow on the whole. As time passes and this continues, I expect prices to drop even more.

Imagine a graph where the average consumer spends 90% on living expenses. At the beginning, that is. As we move to the right on the graph through time however, this 10% which is discretionary money is being diminished. The point of time in which 100% is obviously the time of zero discretionary money available. So far so good. Necessities are still being paid for. The only difference is that the non necessities are no longer affordable.

As more time passes and as inflation exceeds income, the consumer finds himself in distress. He responds with cutbacks in what he has considered necessities. Things like vacations, dinner out, fast food, appliances, etc.. During this process of financial slipping beneath the waves, this consumer is shedding many past accumulated items. But when this is done in an environment of tight money, his possessions can only sell for what the market will bear. A pittance.



Trillions have been lost but the Treasury “reliquifying” the banks isn’t going to help the man on the street. Why ? Because first the banks don’t intend to lend as before; they are scared that borrower won’t be able to make interest payments over the life of the loan. What’s more, the consumer is already drowning in debt and lending in such an environment would be akin to throwing a drowning man an anchor instead of a lifesaver. On a macro scale, the General Motors bailout is a good example. If we bail them out, this would only buy time.

Here’s another good article that clearly lays out the mess we are in. Ponce emailed this to me this morning :

The Great Depression of the 21st Century: Collapse of the Real Economy
by Michel Chossudovsky


http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...t=va&aid=10977

Heavy hitting, huh ?



Best wishes,

Agnut

Hoo boy, Tn…Andy. If you only knew. Ponce lives in an area that is overwhelmingly majority welfare. And when things fall apart, welfare turns into warfare. Ponce knows this well and is ready for the zombies.

And the women ? You don’t want to know.

And the children ? Well, they come out of the above women. So what would you expect ? Poor tykes.

By the way I just posted at silver musings XXIII and some of it ties in with our bartering and horse trading. So if you want to get REALLY bored, cast your eyes upon that drivel. At least the articles I refer to have some good opinions and ideas.

Best wishes,

Agnut

Found this over at Timebomb2000 :

Consumers flock to firewood to cut winter heating costs

http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/showthread.php?t=313541

Remember I wrote a while back about getting free wood pallets for heating the house ? Seems folks are waking up (freezing has a way of doing that) and scooping up wood fireplaces this year to save on heating costs.

Note no mention of free wood pallets. Have to admit though that the pallets don’t last too long but they are sure great for short term heat and getting the logs burning.

That wood stove I bought last summer for $50 is looking like a screaming bargain now. Funny that no one would buy it then with winter coming. Shows you what a bit of thinking ahead can accomplish.

Another eye opener is this article :

75% Drop in Clothing being Shipped to U.S.

http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/showthread.php?t=314550

Socks and underwear may well be the next screaming bargain. Yesterday I got 4 pairs of winter wool blend socks at Big 5 Sporting goods for $10, half price. Can’t work while my tootsies are frozen. And WalMart has 10 pairs of men’s socks for $6, another bargain.

Are you starting to see where we are going ?

Ponce has been raiding (I call it financial raping and pillaging) his local thrift store for some time and now has a huge accumulation of excellent name brand clothing. Probably enough to open a store of his own. And the prices he has been getting these items has me salivating like a Pavlov dog every time I hear of his further exploits. That Ponce, always so far ahead of the present that most anyone would question his sanity. But with time, it becomes apparent that he is actually crazy like a fox !

By the way, please read all the comments TB2000 members have in this thread. If you don’t ACT on this, you are sleep reading !

Finally, think of all the things you buy that are imported. What wears out, what keeps you warm and what you can’t live without. You can find most clothing at thrift stores and garage sales but socks and undies must be bought new. So better get ‘em while the gettin’ is good.

Best wishes,

agnut

Unreal estate. Hmmm….

Foreclosure Storm Will Hit U.S. in 2009 as Loan Changes Fail

http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/showthread.php?t=314579

One of the rare predictions I make is that in some places and at some times real estate will be worth LESS THAN ZERO. It happened in the last depression and I expect it to happen again in what’s coming. In fact, it’s already happening in blighted areas like Detroit.

A quote from the above article jumps out to me: ““The decline in prices and its devastating consequences” will continue next year with no indication of when they will stabilize“, Hall said.

No indication of when they will stabilize ? Gee, what could that mean ?



The following thread on TB2000 shows what generosity and compassion can do in the worst of times (post #1). And post #2 by John Steinbeck, author of “The Grapes Of Wrath”, shows what it was like at the bottom.

Letter from the Great Depression

t=334412

Folks, I fear we are facing a future worse and deeper than the last depression. This realization is why I have been taking so long between posts. Hey, what would you expect ? Looking at the face of a deep depression is, well…… downright depressing.

But there are things we can do now that will have a great impact on our futures.

First, sell anything you can for cash and hold that cash in hand. I don’t like fiat currency any more than you but it is a necessary evil only because fiat currency is the recognized intermediary for barter. Sure, it will lose purchasing power through time. Hasn’t it over the years ? However, if we are to have a serious deflationary period, fiat currency may even increase in purchasing power. It happened in the last depression but that was then and this is now. Then we had gold backing our dollar and silver in our coinage. Now we have debt currency and “sandwiched” coinage with a miniscule metal content relative to its face value.

Ideally, to be prepared, one should have a wide variety of assets such as cash, precious metals, food preps, means of protection and a secure location to live. Yeah, like you didn’t know that. Duh !!

I hate to say this but we may be coming into a time when precious metals’ prices fall precipitously. To have this happen would be in a scenario of extremely tight money, rising unemployment, stock markets falling, bonds collapsing, foreign trade falling, homelessness increasing, governmental prevarications (aka., lying like Hell) and increasing uncertainty of future investments. But we must be ever mindful of precious metals’ sell price and the dollars’ purchasing power. Maybe best to think in terms of how many cans of beans an ounce of silver may buy. I know it would be sad to have bought an ounce of silver for $12 in 2007 only to have to sell that same ounce of silver for $3 after a collapse in 2010. Again, what is important is what that $3 will buy and not the remorse of the $9 loss in fiat currency.

This is why I say to have some fiat cash on hand. It may save your continuance of a decent lifestyle as well as your ability to continue to hold precious metals for the future.

When I began to warn of discretionary income’s vaporization in July of ‘07, I didn’t foresee the full implications that a continuance and acceleration would reveal as we see today. The masses are still stuck in the mindset of complaining about the price of everything going up while wages languish. Most haven’t the mental nor intellectual ability to understand. So don’t spend too much time in trying to educate them. Rather, our time is best spent in getting ourselves as ready as possible.

And the disappearance of the aforementioned discretionary income was actually an illusion enabled by cheap credit. It actually occurred many years before when folks began to add to their credit card balances rather than paying them off as they go.

This bartering and horse trading thread will be two years old next month. When I review my early posts and think of the pickle we are in now, I realize how much and how rapidly the playing field has changed. Amazing !

And to extrapolate toward the future, two more years of heading in the same direction, I expect many more changes as we devolve (nice way of saying we are swirling around in the toilet bowl).

Isn’t it becoming apparent that house prices cannot rise in the future ? Well, not as long as unemployment continues to get worse, inflation rises, and a Great Depression settles in for the duration. In fact, my quote made a long time ago is beginning to come true. Lord, I wish I could have made a happy, hopeful quote. At best, it is a warning to get ready, physically, financially, mentally and spiritually.

Bartering and horse trading has evolved into limited buying for resale profit into passive bartering and horse trading. Like finding things we need and paying as little as possible. Sale coupons and some bulk buys. Clothing and other necessities at garage and estate sales rather than buying at new retail prices.

In other words, now and the future is best to look into preparing to hunker down; as I have seen, you may be able to buy a screaming bargain but you may not be able to find a buyer. Be vewy, vewy careful (thanks, Elmer Fudd).

So what the heck am I doing personally ?

1. Selling anything and everything I don’t expect to need in the future. Selling stamps, toys, artwork and auto parts.
2. Buying as much food preps as I can afford. Costco and sale bargains.
3. Decreasing current bills as much as possible.
4. Not going out to dinners (haven’t for the last couple of years).
5. Not going out to the movies. Only went out once in the last year.
6. Cutting back on some food items
7. Buying bulk off brand items. Our local market has sales on 10 pounds or more of some meats and we repackage it into individual sizes and deep freeze it. I goofed up and missed the last Thanksgiving turkey sale at 27 cents a pound. Now they are about $1.29 a pound. Well, can’t win ‘em all. We did have a Christmas turkey that had been in the freezer for 13 months and it was excellent.
8. Cutting down on utilities when possible.
9. Getting more wood pallets for firewood (thought I’d forget, didn’t you ?).
10. Calling around for more business. Made a phone call the other day and sold another rebuilt transmission. Increasing liquidity is the name of the game, especially right now with uncertainty in the near future. A way of psyching myself to do more and allocate my time to its best use.

The whole playing field has been changing greatly in the last couple of years and seems to be accelerating. Maybe just my perception but this attitude spurs me to do more before I will not be able to someday. I sure wouldn’t want to look back in a year or so and regret what I did not do when I believed that the time was ending for some profitable ventures.

Right now I have 5 diesel Volkswagens that would have sold for thousands more if I had been able to rebuild them and had sold them a year ago. The kicker was that fuel prices have come down so far lately, thus killing the advantage of high mile per gallon transportation. Sure, fuel prices will rise again but I believe that by then, buyers won’t have the money to buy the car as they had in the past. I see it as a window that has closed. A good idea whose time has come and gone. I will still come out in the future but not nearly as well as I had a year ago. Hope you understand what I’m trying to say.

Anyway, my personal opinion is that real estate is a dangerous buy now. Like trying to catch a falling knife. I have read some financial writers who have said that home prices will drop another 30 percent. I think it could be far worse and am in no hurry to even look at these astronomical prices. Besides, if you don’t want a house for your own occupancy, what do you think you could rent it for after a collapse had taken place ? Or could you even rent it ? Then it becomes a tremendous burden.

My mom’s cousin obtained several properties in the depths of the depression. The price ? For free. The banks didn’t want them. This was in downtown Miami. He found renters and in better times he sold and retired a rich man. Nice success story but things are truly different this time. He sold after America recovered from the depression. But that was in a time when we had massive manufacturing capacity. And now we have exported our manufacturing. How stupid and shortsighted can we get ? Recoveries can only occur when we have a foreign trade surplus and without a manufacturing base, what can we export ? Ponce is very focused upon and adamant about this. I agree.

Sorry to say, we are rapidly becoming a banana republic without the bananas. I talked with Tn…Andy a while back and he suggested raising about 100 laying chickens for eggs, meat and selling hens. He also suggested raising food crops for sale or barter. Food will be the new gold and silver. There is a big difference between having 1,000 ounces of silver and owning a working silver mine. One is like a renewable resource and one dwindles over time.

Makes me think of useful occupations for the future; a stream of income.

I feel that these days we are bartering and horse trading for our very futures.

Here’s an article of interest :

UK was just 48 hours from banking collapse

EXCLUSIVE :
BANKS WERE ON THE BRINK
CASHPOINTS WOULD'VE SHUT
BARTER LIKE IN MIDDLE AGES
By Nigel Nelson

Britain was only 48 HOURS from a collapse of the banking system, The People can reveal.

It was feared the nation's banks and cashpoints would close within two days.

And people would be forced to BARTER for goods and food as in medieval times.

Advertisement

The doomsday prospect came up in secret talks by Britain's top bankers.

A well-placed source said: "This was deadly serious. The most senior bankers were admitting we were 48 hours from barter Britain.

"It could have led to unprecedented scenes. In an extreme scenario, people would not have been able to withdraw money from cashpoints.

"They could have been forced into an exchange system for goods.

"It would have been a return to feudal times - the sort of system we thought we had left behind in the Middle Ages."

The talks took place just before the Government brought in emergency measures to prop up the crumbling banks earlier this year.

The moves staved off disaster, but experts are warning next year's recession could set the economy back five years.

http://www.people.co.uk/news/tm_head...name_page.html

So from what I understand, the banking system was 48 hours from collapse earlier this year. And having to go to BARTERING was the great fear ? Well, BRING IT ON I say !

Tax man ? “Sorry, we‘re on a bartering system now (thanks to you morons). Here’s a dead rat and a doorknob. See you next year.”

Isn’t it becoming more apparent as time passes that the unredeemable paper debt fiat currency is failing ?

Unfortunately, the physical manifestations we see all around us such as inflation and unemployment are directly damaging to the working man and lower classes. Seems that the middle class is getting the brunt of it lately. Those on pensions and social security are pretty much shackled aboard the train to insolvency Hell.

Will we enter into a world of feudalism and serfdom ? The Beach Boys’ song comes to mind. “Everybody’s Goin’ Serfing; Serfing U.S.A.” Pretty sick and sardonic but don’t say I didn’t warn you long ago about my writing style.

Sometimes someone will ask me “How much money should I leave in the bank or stock or bond market ?”
I tell them to only leave enough that if it vaporized one day that you would not shed a tear. How’s that for a sobering thought ?

We can’t fix a problem with the same “tools” that caused the breakdown in the first place. That is the definition of insanity.

Here’s another thread with some good ideas :

Pinching pennies on groceries

http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/showthread.php?t=316387

This is an example of wise passive bartering and horse trading. The article says that some 97% of the people are using sale coupons. Wow ! God bless them, they are beginning to see the light. This is what I have been focusing on lately. Getting the most out of the money you do have. Deal making for profit is taking a back seat in view of the buyers’ lack of money. Also we are still falling and should wait until the bottom. The admonition to not try to catch a falling knife is vital at this stage of the game. In time there will be liquidations that are practically giveaways. So holding some cash (and real money too) and being patient is the ticket.

Some time back I wrote that we are going from form to function in our society. The latest styles and new cars are losing their asses now, aren’t they ? Others’ opinions of our social and economic status should not matter. If you can’t get over this hurdle, you will fall ignominiously. Keeping up with the Joneses ? Hey, the Joneses are idiots.

Seeing where we are going and getting there before the crowd is wise. So having a cheap reliable transportation car, buying used clothing and accouterments (weird word; must be French), and pinching a penny until Lincoln screams is the best we can do. Beyond this, there is doubling up with family or friends. Saves a heckuva lot of money.

In our last depression there was a story of a man who had a $20 gold piece and went to his local store. The owner said that he couldn’t cash such a large sum. Sounds unbelievable but what my father told me of his living through the depression confirms this. There was practically no money in circulation and therefore money was king. Of course, the money was gold and silver back then. Not today‘s fiat debt currency, so draw your own conclusions of what will be king in the future. Anyway to continue the story, the store owner said that he would take the gold coin and credit the man for future purchases. It was a few YEARS until he had used up his credit. YEARS ! Not weeks or months !

My father bucked hay for 25 to 50 cents a day during the depression. He also shoveled coal into a furnace at a local high school for 50 cents a day. Such hard work that at the end of the day he could brush the salt off his back.

This makes me wonder how many days’ silver equivalents I hold before I would have to join the “chain gang” shoveling coal myself. In a similar scenario (I’m getting to like that word less each time I use it), a thousand ounces of .999 silver would be equivalent to about 1,300 90% silver half dollars (1,000/.77). And say a hard day’s work paid 50 cents, and at about 240 working days a year, I would have about 5 years and 5 months before I had used up 1,000 ounces of silver.

Let’s not split hairs here; this is just a little mental exercise. I am attempting to show what it means to preemptively be in the right asset in a paper currency collapse. The future is unknown to us peons (guess where that word came from. Is it raining ?….) but it may have some similarities to the past. I dare not predict the future for such is the province of the Almighty. Yellowstone could go off with a bang or a meteor could hit the ocean causing mile high tsunamis. This is beyond our control but we may be able to lessen the blow by positioning ourselves beforehand. I’m talking about us here; not the general public who would rather die than think for themselves. With all the bad news lately I still have yet to see anyone prepping at local supermarkets.

So wadda you think next Christmas season will be like ? Like this year with the Xbox games and jewelry or a can of beans with a bow on it ?

Envision the future you are going to be a part of and save, spend and act accordingly right now. And the adjustment won’t be such a shocker.

Anybody made plans for a bug out location ? I’m all full up with family coming and have been for a year. It’s been discussed and settled. Yesterday my daughter surprised me when she said that she and her girlfriend were holding “four digits” of cash (as in $1,000 or hopefully much more) in case they have to fly out to my place to bug out. I was thrilled with this news but what about their preps ? They won’t have any preps. Sigh… Gotta get another ton of food stocks and where is that money to come from ?

And trying to convince the wealthy to prep ? I’ve tried and they ALL poo-pooed my suggestions. I get the feeling that they think they have so much that they cannot imagine losing it all. Their assumption that the sheer mass of their wealth will save them, even if it loses 90%. But what if ALL of it goes down the tubes ? What then ? It has happened many times in the past and I believe will happen in the future, maybe all too soon.

I have even offered to prep wealthy family members but they won’t spend a dime. Unbelievable ! I have told them that food stocks are earning 17% tax free. Can they get that from their bonds or stock “investments” ? And behind the scenes lurks the unknown risks of paper losses. Frustrating as Hell.

So I came up with an idea; I should type out a letter telling them what will happen when the future unfolds. And tell them that my preps are most definitely NOT for their consumption. To hammer home this point I would tell them that although I have preps for years, each bit of food I give them would be taking it out of the mouths of my children ! Now what retort could they come up with without looking like a totally selfish moron ?

Like Ponce keeps saying, If you don’t hold it, you don’t own it. That applies to everything, not just precious metals.

Best wishes,

Agnut

P.S. If it took them13 months to tell us we are in a recession, how long do you think it will take them to tell us we are in a depression ?

The government will tell us only what they want us to know or WHAT THEY CAN NO LONGER CONCEAL.
Ponce

The Business Of Bartering
CBS Evening News: The Recession Has Forced Many Cash-Strapped Americans To Resurrect A Depression-Era Tradition


(CBS) Robbie Moonie lays floors for a living, barely surviving in tough times.

"It's feast or famine in any kind of construction," he says.

So he's trying something new: working for a homeowner who won't pay him a dime.

"He may not be paying cash, but I am able to get things I wouldn't buy," he says.

Moonie bartered with James and Rhonda Parivechio. He gets a used dirt bike and all-terrain vehicle. They get new hardwood floors.

"We figured the fair market value was worth what he was doing for me," James says.

In a down economy, bartering is way up -- 98 percent from a year ago on Craig'sList, the online giant for classified ads. More people are finding something to swap.

"Trade isn't going to stop just because money is short and credit is not available," says Jim Buckmaster of Craig'sList.

Bartering has even saved some businesses from bankruptcy. Stan Thomas's ad company turns trucks into moving billboards.

"My major costs are the labor, the truck and the vinyl," he says.

To cover those costs, Thomas barters on IMS, a booming nationwide bartering service for businesses. He trades the value of his company's ads, and in return, picks from a menu of goods and services offered by 18,000 bartering companies.

"It goes back to a farmer swapping three chickens for a pig," says Magellan Transit Media President Stan Thomas. "I mean, it's as old as it gets. It's just more sophisticated now."

And it's drawing more sophisticated traders, like Dave and Sheila Meadow. From their family-owned jewelry store, they've bartered with silver and gold the last 25 years.

"People can trade anything," Sheila says. "I would happily trade anything in the store for somebody to come rake the leaves."

Most of their home's furniture and art, even clothes for their nine kids, was bartered.

"What about your kids?" Strassmann asks. "Did you get your kids on barter?"

"No, no, no. They asked us that," Sheila says.

In tough times, what's old is new again. Money's tight. So barter talks.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...n4694711.shtml

__________________

Hi and thanks for the bartering article Canadian-guerilla. I haven’t tried a bartering club. Has anyone reading this tried one ? If so, please add in your two cents.

I probably haven’t written enough regarding actual bartering, a trade of one item for another without currency as the intermediary. Labor can be traded too; I’m doing one such barter now. My labor in building a transmission for a couple of Stihl chain saws and some other equipment.

I spoke with Tn…Andy a while back and he feels that having a flock of chickens as well as a large garden would be a good source of income/barter for the future we face. I’m planning both but will only have 8-12 chickens for our own needs.


I highly recommend your reading at The Daily Reckoning (as a bonus, the irrepressible Mogambo Guru lurks here. One of my favorite writers)

http://www.dailyreckoning.com/

BENEFIT FROM BEING A BABY BOOMER
by Nathan Lewis

People sometimes ask me: "What should I do with my retirement account?" I often tell them to consider ways of retiring that are not dependent on financial abstractions and various corporate/government promises, such as Social Security or corporate pensions. This usually gets some puzzlement because they've been trained for decades to think only in terms of financial products.

Let's look at a specific example. This is for my own parents, who turned 65 last year. (That puts them just before the Baby Boomers.) They live in a nice suburb outside of New York City, on the coast of Connecticut. Like many older people, they would like to stay in the house they have owned for about 20 years now, in the community they are accustomed to, and near the friends they have. It's not so easy to start over when you're over 65.

Even people who have been able to accumulate significant assets, pensions etc., might be a little nervous. Trying to depend, for the next 20 or even 30 years perhaps, on financial abstractions and government promises would be a little scary. I usually tell them that they should be scared! Or, at least don't put too much faith in various Wall Street promises (and pensions are ultimately Wall Street promises too). You aren't going to make a smooth 8% per year in your 401(k) just because some financial advisor told you so. But, I guess you've figured that out now. Anything can happen. Particularly as we are sort of in a depression right now. Owning a big house in a nice neighborhood is not cheap, even if it is 100% owned with no mortgage. The annual costs of a house look something like this:

Property tax: $8000 (and that could go up)
Insurance: $2000 (could be higher)
Maintenance: $2000 (could be higher)
Utilities (phone, internet, cable, electric, trash collection) per month: $200 or $2400/year.
Heating oil: $2000 per year (could be higher).
Total: $16,400. That is probably on the low side. So, let's just budget it at $18,000.

Then, you've got a car and all the other expenses of living. And what happens when you get a little frail, and want living assistance?
Have you seen the prices for nursing homes?
It's not that these burdens are unbearable. It's rather that they are burdensome. Just house-related costs could chew up most of your Social Security check right there. And, if things really go to hell in the future, they might become unbearable. Who knows what things will look like in 20 years? Only your financal advisor knows for sure.

Let's look at it from the financial side. Maybe you can get 3% of cashflow from a "safe" muni bond portfolio, or dividends from stocks. And, you have to take into account inflation … over the next twenty years. How do we "take into account" the unknowable? What happens if there's not enough fifteen years from now, and I'm still alive? To get $18,000 of income would take $600,000 of muni bonds. And, muni bonds are looking kinda risky these days. Dividends from stocks might take more than $600,000, because you have to pay taxes on dividends. Stocks go up and down a lot too. Sickening.
Now, like I said, they've been living in the area for a while and have some good friends, who are about the same age and in similar circumstances.
So, here's the plan:

You get together with your friends. You say: "We're all retired now. I've got a big empty house. You do too I suppose. Maybe we can think of living together. That would help reduce our living expenses. Plus, it might be fun, and it would be a good way to keep an eye on each other. That can be important when you're getting older."
Everyone is repulsed at first, because we Americans are all taught that we have to live as far away from each other as possible. But, they remember that, when they were in college, they used to share houses, and it was kind of fun. Also, everyone is older now and a lot better behaved than when they were in college. And, it is true that it might be good to have someone keeping an eye on you.
So, everyone decides to move into one house, owned by the Owner. The people who move in, two other retired couples, are the Renters. The Renters pay the Owner $800 a month to rent a bedroom, and agree to pay 1/3 of the utility and heating bills. The Renters' cost of living looks something like this:
Rent: $800 * 12 = $9600
Utilities: $100/month = $1200
Heat: $700
Total annual costs: $11,500.
Now, indeed renting turns out to be cheaper than owning the big house, even when the big house is fully paid for. They could sell their big houses if they wanted to. But, they are nervous about just selling the house they have owned for twenty years, and moving in with someone else. It might not work out. Let's not burn any bridges. So, instead of selling their now-empty houses, they rent them out.
Rent: $3500 per month = $42,000 per year (typical, actually a little low). Heckuva lot cheaper than paying the mortgage on a million-dollar house. Just the thing for a Wall Streeter with a family that needs to downsize quickly. Real quickly. Utilities are paid for by the renters.

Costs:
Property tax: $8000
Maintenance: $3000 (higher with renters)
Insurance: $2000
Total: $13,000
Net cashflow: $42,000 - $13,000 = $29,000.
Now, they're getting $29,000 in rent net of property expenses. Then, they pay their $11,500 it costs to live in the shared house.
$29,000 - $11,500 = $17,500.

Now, look at the renters:
Before: $18,000 per year of housing costs.
After: Housing and utilities are paid for, and an extra $17,500 per year of free cash flow, plus probably some tax benefits.

Wow, all of a sudden, you're living for free, and getting paid too! You just created, out of thin air, the equivalent of a $1,200,000 muni bond portfolio. Maybe more, if you consider tax benefits (rental properties can charge depreciation.) And, you still own your house.
For the Owner, it looks like this:
House costs: $13,000
Utilities: $1200 (1/3)
Heat: $700 (1/3)
Total: $14,900
Rental Income: $800 * 2 * 12 = $19,200
Net cashflow: $19,200 - $14,900 = $4,300.

So, the Owner is also living for free! However, their cashflow is not as high as the Renters. That's probably the way it should be, because the Renters will probably want a little extra incentive to move out of their house into someone else's.

So, now where are we? All three couples are now living for free, and getting some extra cash on top of that. And, there are things you can do in a shared house, like splitting cooking duties. Instead of cooking every night for two, the cook can cook twice a week for six. That's a lot easier, and would probably result in a more ambitious menu, and would resolve the question of how three people can cook in one kitchen. If the men are smart, they will encourage a little friendly competition among their wives, to "keep up the pace" for their two dinners a week. You can finally use that formal dining room every day. Then, everyone has a house's worth of furnishings. The antiques, boutiquey stuff, art and heirlooms, and the grand piano, all goes into the house where everyone is living. The more generic, replaceable stuff can go into the houses that are being rented out. Maybe you can charge an extra $500 a month for a furnished house. $500 a month is $6000 per year. That's another $200,000 muni bond portfolio-equivalent, that you created out of some used furniture. You would have had to save $400,000 before income taxes, to get a $200,000 portfolio after taxes.

After a while, in a shared house, there is always the issue of who does what house chores, and do they do it adequately, and so forth. The easy way to solve this problem is to get a housekeeper to come in one day a week, and do the vacuuming, laundry, bathrooms and all that. It's $100 a week, or $5,200 a year, or $1,735 per couple per year. Covered by their extra cashflow. Over time, people are over 70 and a little frail. Maybe they would like a little more help with shopping or even cooking, or they are no longer able to drive safely by themselves.

So, they get a live-in full-time housekeeper. The housekeeper lives in the fourth bedroom. The housekeeper gets room and board and use of a car, plus $1,000 a month in salary. Not a bad deal for a housekeeper. That's $12,000 per year or $4,000 per couple. That is also within their net cashflow. So, now everyone has their housing and utilities and a live-in housekeeper paid for. Make it $2,000 a month and you could get a registered nurse, probably. Now you've got a private nursing home.
Being older with lots of free time, it would probably be good to get outside for some light exercise. The house sits on two acres, of which perhaps there is one full acre of lawn. Instead of growing grass, let's grow some vegetables. This is prime farm country, or it was in the colonial days. You can grow a lot of vegetables on a full acre. Heck, you can grow a lot of vegetables on a tenth of an acre. A tenth of an acre is 4,356 square feet, or 43 feet by 100 feet. Not a small garden, that. So, you drop some seeds in the ground, and have fresh vegetables all summer. You even do some canning and put some away for winter. It's all organic, you get some exercise, and no more big-ticket trips to Whole Foods.

So, now, instead of paying out $18,000 a year in housing expenses, you're living for free, with your friends, with a live-in housekeeper, with some extra cashflow on top of that, and a lot of your food costs are covered as well. What is there to be worried about? Pass the 401(k) on to your kids. Don't worry about the corporate pension. Consider the Social Security check to be your entertainment budget. If there's inflation, just raise your rents.
And all it took was a little cooperation among friends, to make better use of what they already own.

Regards,
Nathan Lewis
for The Daily Reckoning
Editor's Note: Nathan Lewis is the author of Gold: the Once and Future Money (2007), published by Agora Book Publishing and John Wiley.

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I’ve posted this article to show that there are more options out there than we may realize. After reading the above by Nathan Lewis, I wondered what the heck I am doing with my own financial planning for the future. And YOU should be thinking too !

Best wishes,

Agnut

i'm seeing a lot more articles on bartering in the MSM


Money is dead - long live barter
With cash ever harder to come by, will the council let us settle tax bills in cake?

Inspired by global economic developments, I’ve been thinking recently about doing without money. Not in a bad way. Oh no: I’m planning to do very well indeed without money – perhaps turn myself into Mr Big. And the method I intend to use, now that money has dried up everywhere, is . . . barter.

I realise it will not be easy. When I started doing this, I phoned the council to ask about settling my tax bill by barter, and an official said: “We allow direct debit, cash, cheque, credit card. But barter? It’s unheard of, sir.”

My accountant had warned me about this: only inheritance tax, he said, could be settled with goods, such as an oil painting. But I persisted, telling the man from the council that if I failed to pay my bill the council would send bailiffs to confiscate goods to the same value – a kind of forced barter after the fact.

What could I offer? A vast sackful of apples and other produce from my allotment, a selection of silk ties (rarely used), large piles of novels (good condition) and some amazing home-baked cakes.

He was unmoved. Perhaps I could work for the council instead – sweep the streets; paint a portrait of the mayor? “It’s a very ingenious proposal,” the official said, “but I don’t want to waste your time.”

I know what you’re thinking: barter is useless. But you may be mistaken. Because an astonishingly large proportion of the global trade in goods and services is barter-based, to protect traders against alarming currency fluctuations.

In one of the most famous examples, Pepsi took profits from Soviet Russia in the form of vodka. The largest barter of all time took place last year: China agreed to build massive infrastructure in the Democratic Republic of Congo in exchange for copper and cobalt supplies worth an estimated £6 billion. About the same time, Saudi Arabia and Iran agreed with Pakistan and Thailand, respectively, to swap oil for food.

Not for nothing has The Wall Street Journal described barter as a “powerful cash-saving tool”. The journal of the “reciprocal trade industry”, Barter News, goes further: “We’re moving into the golden age of barter,” it reported recently, adding that 600,000 companies in the US alone actively traded both locally and across borders.

In the UK, a village pub, the Pigs, at Edgefield, in Norfolk, offered pints in exchange for locally sourced food to be cooked in its kitchens. Thousands of others trade more formally through exchanges such as Bartercard: last year the Fashion TV network used Bartercard to save £110,000 in cash on alcohol and other goods for its launch party – which FTV is repaying by providing advertising.

Happily, barter works for individuals too. A Canadian, Kyle MacDon-ald, made headlines by bartering, via trade after trade on the internet, a paper clip for a house. Only slightly less impressive, my friend the photographer Guy Hills persuaded every tailor in Savile Row to make him an outfit in return for photographing them at work. A couple named Dan and Gemma Scott cut £9,000 from the cost of their wedding by bartering for the church, the reception, the cars and the photos. To do this, they worked as housekeeper and labourer, dug ditches, delivered leaflets and repaired cars. “When Gemma started planning the wedding,” Dan said, “I knew we didn’t have the money for it. We ended up with a £12,000 wedding for just £3,000.”

It wasn’t the Scotts alone who benefited: the people for whom they carried out those services probably wouldn’t have hired them, in the present economic turmoil, if they’d asked for cash. The wedding might not have happened, and a whole lot of economic activity would never have taken place if the Scotts hadn’t thought of using barter.

Despite these examples, it would be misleading to suggest that barter always takes place between two parties who each have something the other wants. Indeed, straight swaps of that kind are rare, because they’re flawed: if you want one of my cakes and can’t offer anything I need, the barter is over before it starts.

To get around this, barter is these days increasingly transacted through a group exchange: you pay me a credit for my delicious cake, and I spend that credit on another member of the exchange – getting my loo unblocked, or having a foot massage. In effect, the credits are a form of money issued and guaranteed by the group.

The challenge lies in finding the right exchange network. ReadIt SwapIt.co.uk has had a huge increase in book swaps (there are currently 221,000 books available). WhatsMineIsYours.com facilitates clothing and accessory exchange. SeedyPeople.co.uk lets gardeners and allotmenteers exchange seeds. UKhomeswap.co.uk has thousands of users who pay a monthly fee in the hope of swapping council properties, while Hamptons International has a similar scheme for landlords.

Alas, satisfaction is not guaranteed. On ReadItSwapIt, for instance, many members have done many swaps – one in Scotland claims to have done 900 – but for me it would be cheaper and more convenient, now that my local post office has closed, to get new books from the library (which hasn’t, yet) and give away anything I don’t need to charity shops.

On swapz.co.uk and swapcycle.co.uk, the variety of offers is stunning. They give evidence that many transactions are taking place that wouldn’t have done if people depended entirely on money. Typical of this is the woman offering to do housework in exchange for somebody fitting tiles in her kitchen, through one of many local exchange trading systems, or Lets, up and running across the country. As many as 40,000 people belong to Lets, and more are joining all the time.

Slightly different are the 250 or so “time banks” across the country, in which everybody’s time has the same value. In effect, this brings members’ income down (or up) to the national average. The revolutionary implication is that if people want to stop being poor and oppressed they could save themselves the trouble of protest marches by setting up a time bank and dropping out of the mainstream economy altogether.

At least, that’s the theory. Practice is trickier. Molly Scott Cato of Cardiff School of Management, the author of Green Economics, a delightful new book examining such things, concedes that time banks can improve quality of life in communities. “But for most members this is peripheral to their main livelihood,” she says.

All the same, I do find all this barter activity rather inspiring. I may not have persuaded the council, yet, but the company that sells me electricity proved willing to consider barter. A woman handling the marketing seemed to think I could help to write some publicity material. Something, however, needed to be resolved first: “How many words do you think you write per unit of electricity?” she asked.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle5488528.ece

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You sure those pallets aren't treated? I wouldn't burn them in my house if they were.

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The only socio-economic system compatible with freedom is capitalism, as defined as the complete separation of the economy and the state.

Wow Canadian-guerilla, that’s quite an affirmation of bartering and horse trading. This paragraph jumped out :

“Not for nothing has The Wall Street Journal described barter as a “powerful cash-saving tool”. The journal of the “reciprocal trade industry”, Barter News, goes further: “We’re moving into the golden age of barter,” it reported recently, adding that 600,000 companies in the US alone actively traded both locally and across borders.”

Golden age of barter ? Items of value traded for other items of value ? I like it, I like it a LOT !

This is financial dealing in its purest form; people exchanging goods at mutually accepted agreements of relative values. No coercion, no guesswork as to what the purchasing power of fiat currency will be in the future. In fact, gold and silver are more appropriate and superior as the money intermediary involved; they carry their value within rather than without (without as in without any reliability of future purchasing power. Nobody behind the curtain (see my avatar) to muck up the works.) Don’tcha just love guys who put parentheses within parentheses ?

I wrote a long time ago that I believe we will have hyperstagflation rather than inflation or deflation. By this I mean that prices will continue to rise while wages stagnate and unemployment increases. It doesn’t have to be a daily parabolic rise but rather a continual erosion of purchasing power of the unbacked fiat currency while rising unemployment keeps the lid on wage increases.

And the long term prognosis for this hyper stagflation environment ? It doesn’t take much imagination to see that the average citizen will diminish in abundance. Ha ! Abundance ? Coffee is spewing out of my nose as I guffaw at what once was and what is now. A pause to regain my sensibilities (and to clean up the mess on the keyboard. Lucky there isn‘t much voltage there or my obituary would be my final embarrassment.

You tell me when we last had abundance; I think it was somewhere in the early seventies. Probably around the time Nixon slammed the international gold window on DeGaulle‘s goose liver pate tainted fingers.

And ever since then we have been floating around in a sea of flotsam consisting of fecal matter masquerading as real life rafts. And here the analogy breaks down ignominiously as a gold or silver liferaft would sink like a stone. For you see, fiat currency itself is not the flaw but rather the over issuance of fiat currency. From what I gather, fiat currency must be increased in quantity to cover the interest charged for its borrowing. Not to mention that those in charge make a stream of profit, an obscene profit, since they are at the currency spigot. At the core of it all, look into the hearts of those over issuing the currency.

To illustrate (and probably extrapolate into the absurd), imagine borrowing $100,000 from a bank at 100% interest. Hey, don’t scoff; I read that some credit cards in jolly old England are charging in the mid 40 percents. Anyhow, in one year you have to pay $100,000 back in interest but the principal debt of $100,000 remains. This is the flipside of the old saying “The gift that keeps on giving”. It is “The theft that keeps on taking”.

So where did this $100,000 interest come from ? Well, unless you robbed the bank or ripped off your fellow citizens (shame on you), it came from issuance of more currency. Much more in the case of 100% interest. In fact, if interest were this high, the game would be obvious to all. Instead we have had a 95 to 98 percent loss in purchasing power of the dollar over a period of 95 years. We have been nibbled to death by ducks rather than swallowed whole by a great white shark. But the result has been the same; the ducks just took longer and seemed less shocking and painful. With slow inflation, we told ourselves that it isn’t too painful and that we could somehow keep up with the fiat currency’s erosion. Additionally, mankind’s nature is to pay the interest and not pay off/down the principal. We see this going on all around us these days.

Of course now we have about 6% reported inflation but real inflation of about 14% yearly
, according to Shadowstats. And reported unemployment of 7% is really reported by Shadowstats as just under 18%. Figures don’t lie but liars figure. Lately the ducks have grown sharp teeth, eh ?

So what has all this got to do with bartering and horse trading ? Only everything, my friends. Canadian-guerilla’s article shows that bartering and horse trading has a powerful future, both for international trade and for the man on the street.

This month marks two years since I began this thread. I didn’t know it then but now realize I was ahead of the times. No genius to be claimed by my voraciously needy ego but just lucky to be aboard the crest of the wave (or was that tsunami ?).

Only recently have I considered the involvement of the tax man in bartering and horse trading. If I trade a ladder for a couple of chickens, where is the taxation ? Or if I fix a neighbor’s water pipe and he fixes my boat, where is the taxation ? Honestly I don’t know but it seems that the tax man is left out of the equation. The items traded have already been taxed when bought new so why should they be taxed again ? Especially when no money is involved. Does anybody include such trades on their 1040 ? It may be a good time to listen to the Beatles’ song “Tax Man”.

Gotta go; too much to do and not enough hours in the day. I make lists daily but some things always get carried over into the future. We all should be happy that we have such lists for this is what we are doing to further increase our positions in this world. And checking off tasks completed should be reason for satisfactions. I strongly encourage this list making; it organizes one’s life. And besides, if I didn’t make lists, I would forget to do many things and they would pile up on me. A sense of purpose and organization in an insane world.

Best wishes,

Agnut

P.S. des00s, I burn only untreated wood pallets. Most are cheap pine and good for starting the logs we cut down around the property.

P.P.S. I have talked with a couple of VW diesel owners and one said that he burns used engine oil he gets from the Quickie Lube places. He says that there is no smoke or problems. Another told me that he uses 50-50 used oil and diesel. Let’s see; if he were getting 50 MPG with 100% diesel and instead were using the 50-50, he would be getting the equivalent or 100 MPG cost wise !!

Of course, The guy using 100% old oil is getting infinite MPG in relation to cost !!! Something to think about. Now if I could get a car to run on hydrogen and oxygen from water electrolyzed, that would be quite a feat. I heard someone’s kid blew the lid off his test apparatus. Not once but twice ! The parents gotta keep a “lid” on that kid.

Agnut, what state are you in?

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The only socio-economic system compatible with freedom is capitalism, as defined as the complete separation of the economy and the state.

Lets see, you made about ¼ chicken profit so you owe the tax man a peck of feathers.

I'm sure the government (or what still exists of it) will figure out some way to tax your butt some how some way for your "benefit". Back in the barter/trade days they taxed you a portion of your crops. Or they taxed you on your land holdings - "that will be six ounces of gold and twelve ounces of silver Sire Jones."

That part about burning used motor oil in a diesel engine can't be too good for the engine can it? I have a 1997 Ford Powerstroke and I don't think I would even want to put a 10% oil mix in the fuel.

bf

Hi bottom feeder. Have you seen the 1959 movie “The Mating Game” with Tony Randall and Debbie Reynolds ? IRS agent Randall goes to find why Reynolds’ father has never paid income tax. Father trades for everything he owns; doesn’t use cash as far as I can recall. Anyway, a light comedy. It sidesteps the question of whether income taxes are due from bartering. Can’t get too taxing in a comedy, now could we ?

I have to question; where is the profit when two parties trade or barter one item for another ? By the nature of this transaction, both parties are giving and receiving equal value. The desire to do so is that each party wants what the other has and can strike a trade satisfactory to both. This is the essence of bartering; a free will transaction unfettered by coercion or deception.

Although the use of fiat currency allows a much greater velocity of transactions, we should also have bartering and horse trading to complete the possible options. With the former, the govt and FED have no problem getting their fingers in the pie. But with the latter, it is more difficult for them to get their pound of flesh. We read all the time now about recommendations of getting out of fiat paper and other paper products such as stocks, bonds, etc. Tangible assets are their answer.

So what could be more pure and clean than trading an item you have for another you want or need ? Of course, much depends upon the character of the other party. I’ve had good experience in the past and will continue bartering when I can. Sometimes more comes of it than was ever anticipated. Like doors opening that I never knew were there. And relationships.

Remember the expression “Yankee Trader” ? It describes a bygone era of early Americans who were sharp negotiators. Nowadays, as a nation, we have become lazy and unimaginative by using fiat currency instead of using our wits.

Here’s an interesting article that may explain why we are where we are today :

Fake Money, Dead Money and Fake Leaders
By Hubert Moolman

http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials...man011509.html

Now, Tuesday is the inauguration. And Colin Powell and vice president elect Biden have both stated that something big is going to happen soon after the election. Hmmm…

This article is speculative but I wonder if it has to do with what is to “happen”.

Is President Obama Wearing A Giant Gold Mask ?
By Stewart Thomson

http://www.321gold.com/editorials/th..._s_011409.html

Of note is item #8 which states “Here's a quotation from President Obama: "There's a new book out about FDR's first 100 days and what you see in FDR that I hope my team can emulate, is not always getting it right, but projecting a sense of confidence, and a willingness to try things. And experiment in order to get people working again."

And we all know that FDR immediately closed the banks and soon thereafter called in all the gold. A “bank Holiday”; what a laugh ! Bet it wasn’t a picnic for the depositors.

Makes me wonder if I should have my money in hand rather than sitting in the bank come this Tuesday.

The change from $20 to $35 per ounce of gold was one way of devaluing the dollar. I wonder how they will devalue the dollar this time what with gold not being in circulation these days. And how many times what exists today ? Because doubling the money supply won’t even make a dent in the derivatives and other debt out there. Create oodles of dollars like a counterfeiter on crack ? Yeah, that’s the ticket.

Hey, I make no apologies regarding this talk about money because it is foundational to bartering and horse trading. At least for now. Doesn’t take much imagination to realize what it would be like during a collapse of a fiat currency. As Moolman wrote, he feels that the world monetary system could end as soon as the next 1 to 2 years.

When this occurs, bartering and horse trading should take on a crucial function; the replacement of failed fiat currency in getting what we need.

Canadian-guerilla’s post points out the way of the future.

“Not for nothing has The Wall Street Journal described barter as a “powerful cash-saving tool”. The journal of the “reciprocal trade industry”, Barter News, goes further: “WE’RE MOVING INTO THE GOLDEN AGE OF BARTER,” it reported recently, adding that 600,000 companies in the US alone actively traded both locally and across borders.”

I put that into capitals because I like it so much. Might even get it tattooed somewhere private. Golden AND barter in the same sentence. I think I’m in love !

Like gold and silver, bartering and horse trading have been reliably utilized for thousands of years. They ALL have always been the safety net for when the world falls off the high wire of dizzy fiat monetary life. Hell, Dizzy ? Try crazy, illogical, stupid, cruel, greedy, dishonest and last but not least traitorous. Gotta stop here and catch my breath and lower my pulse. Sorry, moments of lucidity and righteousness always throw me for a loop.

I know I repeat sometimes but this from Charles Darwin seems to be becoming more appropriate by the day :

“It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change.”

Even Obama has promised change in the future. I predict that we will see many, many changes this year. Changes which will require us to adapt like never before. So if we don’t begin to think for ourselves and ACT in a sensible manner, we will become extinct. Well, at least in a financial sense. And isn’t that devastating to consider ? Think what your life would be suddenly without a job or income. Have you made plans for such an eventuality ? How many months expenses do you have set aside ? And where do you have this money ? In a bank ? In an IRA or 401K or money market ? There will probably be only one in a thousand who would be able to get through a catastrophic economic event without losing their place in society. This may not be “just” a great transfer of wealth but additionally a restructuring of our society itself.

As a digression (see, I always try to warn you), imagine waking up one morning to discover a tick on your back. Pretty disconcerting to say the least but not life threatening.
Now imagine waking up with a tick the size of a 150 pound blood sucking pig on your back. NOW your concern is that this parasite is sucking the life forces out of you. And NOW you can feel how the PORK barrel projects (and largess like the TARP fund) are larger than the host, aka the American public Incidentally, the TARP fund should be transposed into what it really is, the TRAP fund ! I see it as an acceleration of our going down the black hole of the collapse of fiat currency. Hell, why not create a quadrillion dollars and pay off the stupid debts and with what’s left we all can go to Bora Bora for a month of sunshine and Margaritas. I TOO have a dream !

An example of good bartering and horse trading just happened with an old friend. Some lessons to be learned here. He called the other day and said that he wanted a high definition big screen TV. He knows that I have two Samsung DLP TVs I’ve used to death for the last 3 years. He said that a new one is $2,000. I told him that there are some almost new ones on Craig’s list for $500 to $800. He thought that would be a good idea. The next day he mentioned that he was wanting a new TV and the neighbor said that he would sell his 52” TV to my friend for $500 but had to wait until his new 72” TV arrived. The deal was agreed on. Well, this morning my friend said that he had some bad news. I knew what it was before he had the chance to say. The neighbor wanted to back out of the deal because one of his friends offered to buy it for $1,200.

So my friend looked on the internet for one of the Samsung models I had recommended. A 56” brand new model was offered for $1,000 with free delivery. It even has 3D capability. Boy, I have got to see that ! Right now he is in the process of ordering this new TV. The deal ain’t done until everybody has what they wanted so I’ll keep you posted as to how this deal ends.

First, I had told my friend that in my experience, the DLP provides the best picture. He recalled that I had told him a couple of years ago to go to Circuit City and check out the DLP TV like mine. When he went in, there was a huge screen with a river flowing toward the viewer. He said his involuntary reaction was to look to see if the floor was wet ! The picture was so real that it had fooled him.

A few weeks ago, he had been misinformed by a salesman that the DLP technology was old school and that the liquid crystal or plasma screen was the way to go. I straightened him out this morning while he confirmed what I was telling him on the internet. He was shocked that he had been so misled.

So what can be gleaned here from this transaction ?

1. Get enough opinions so that you cannot be misled. Internet, Consumer Reports, etc.

2. Talk with friends who have experience in this area. Friends will be only too happy to spend time with you while you check out all the features of their TV at leisure rather than having a rabid commission driven salesman breathing down your neck.

3. Compare prices for both new and used and decide whether the difference makes good sense.

4. When making a good deal, get the item in your possession as soon as possible. Immediately is best. Deals can go sour with the passing of time as I wrote regarding my friend and his neighbor.

5. Think of what you are losing versus what you are gaining. Not just right now but into the future. Just because you have the cash in hand does not necessarily mean that you can afford it. In accounting there is a term “lost opportunity cost”. It means that what you buy now has a cost of lost opportunities in the future. Imagine my friend not buying the bargain new $1,000 TV and instead looking around for an item he can acquire and resell for twice the price. Then he may be able to buy the new TV from the profits from this deal and still have the original $1,000.

6. Emotions should most assuredly not be part of your decision making. This is a good idea especially when buying a car for your son or daughter (or wife if she is the emotional type. Hey what woman isn‘t ; they are made this way. God bless ‘em (and God help you if you get in their way)). They will often not be able to contain themselves and the seller will take their cue and therefore take advantage of your negotiations. Might cost you hundreds or even thousands.

7. Be in no hurry to close the deal. Actually, at least, appear to be in no hurry. When buying anything, look it over carefully and with a detached demeanor.

8. Be a futurist. Try to imagine what you will think of this deal in a year, three years, and so on. Will the item be obsolete ? Beta to VHS to DVD and now to Blue Ray; what are they going to think up next to suck up your bucks ? Smellavision ?

Best wishes and JMHO,

Agnut

P.S. Using 100% second hand oil in a diesel requires that you first heat the oil to 170 degrees and then switch from the diesel fuel tank to the oil fuel tank. Before shutoff, you must switch back to diesel so that the fuel line and injectors don’t clog up with the heavier oil. It sounds like a pain and if you forget to switch over before shutting down, you’ve got a mess on your hands.

One good possibility could be to run a home electric generator on 100% second hand oil. I know I could probably pick up the oil for free but buying 20 almost new 55 gallon empty oil drums would cost $800 where I live. For an investment in time and $800 I would have 1,100 gallons of fuel. If diesel costs $4 by the time I use it, that would be a savings of $4,400 minus the $800 for a gain of $3,600. And that’s including my having bought the 55 gallon drums. They will refill many, many times or at least as long as used oil is available. Or as long as the government doesn’t outlaw it.

I just now reread the previous paragraph and realized that perhaps we are moving into a time in which availability will become more important than price. Something to think about as you are outfitting your ark before the rains.

However, the using 50-50 oil and diesel sounds like it will work without modification. At least that’s what one VW diesel owner told me. I may try this with my VW diesel pickup truck when I get it rebuilt but gotta do more research before risking any damage.


Support your country always and your government when they deserve it
Mark Twain

many times i've been at a yard sale, and saw someone else buy something i wanted
only to follow them off the property and offer them extra over what they had just paid

to me, at that moment in time, the extra $$ was worth the effort
it was just my luck of the draw that someone else bought that item first, - first come, first served
but as i watch the item being purchased by someone else
this is where i decide if this item still has value to me, even with an added few $$
the functionality of the item is never in question,


think about your everday life, what do people take for granted ?

bic lighters
bread & milk at the store
?????????????

WHAT HAS VALUE ?

think about it now, and plan for the future . . .

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Hi again Canadian-guerilla. That’s a REALLY good point you made about bartering and horse trading. The price isn’t important as what the item is worth. Someone who beat you to the purchase at a garage sale can sometimes be enticed to resell to you on the spot for more moolah. Imagine buying a piece of furniture for $60 and as you leave, someone offers you $240. What do you do ?

Well, four times your money in a matter of minutes is tempting. But what if you know that this piece of furniture actually has a market value of $600 ? A while back I bought an antique wooden ice box (made around 1910, I guess) for $60. If someone had offered me $240 I would have been torn between advertising and trying for the $600 sale price or taking the $240 bird in the hand. Would it be worth it to me, for my efforts, to chase the extra potential $360 profit ?

I’ll leave it to you to think of all the personal and financial decisions that have an impact on such a decision. You see, bartering and horse trading requires all kinds of decision making. And this decision making has to be taken upon with a spirit of pleasure and opportunity. Sure, there will be mistakes along the way to becoming proficient. But those mistakes are very, very valuable in the process of forming your future wise judgment calls. What’s that saying ? Experience is what you get when you didn’t get what you were after.

Best wishes,

agnut

P.S. I just read this article for the third time and it still makes me shudder. It runs along the lines of what I have been suspecting may well happen soon; all too soon. Gotta get to Costco for that last truckload of food preps.

Civil Unrest
By Mike Ruppert

http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/showthread.php?t=318977

Thanks Agnut for sharing your vast wisdom. This thread is what got me hooked on GIM! You are a treasured mind. May we continue to gleam from your insights many more years to come!